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"Inquiring Minds want to know......."
16-Oct-05, 09:33 PM (EDT)
Do the goals in the gimmick at the end of overtime count in the stats?

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Everybody Wang Chung......

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1. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
16-Oct-05, 09:53 PM (EDT)
In response to message #0
 
No, they do not count towards any players statistics and do not count against a goaltender for goals against or shots faced. The winning team is awarded a goal in the Goals For column, but it is awarded to the team and no specific player.

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2. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
16-Oct-05, 10:08 PM (EDT)
In response to message #1
 
Thanks. So I assume that 5-Holzig gets a win and Burke gets hit with a loss too?

Funny how a one-on-one gimmick doesn't really count for the individual players in the stats but does for the "team." What a bleeping joke........

But I have to admit, it was nice not have to fight my way through the crowd to leave. I personal favorite is the groups of people who stand in the middle of the concourse having a conversation with each other while they hold up traffic.

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Everybody Wang Chung......

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3. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
16-Oct-05, 11:50 PM (EDT)
In response to message #2
 
Yeah, Olie gets the W and Burke the L, but both get credited for 2 GAA in 65 minutes.

Well, you can't really count them in real stats. It would seriously inflate some players Goals scored stats and kill goalie GAA. I honestly don't have a huge problem with the shootout since it is done after an OT. Before this season both teams go home with a tie, now they both get a point and the winner gets the extra point.

What I don't like is how points are awarded. It should at least be a 3 point system. 3 points for regulation win, two points for OT or shootout win and 1 point for OT or shootout loss. I would prefer a two point system. 2 to the winner and 0 to the loser no matter when. It hasn't happened yet, but one year a team is going to make the playoffs based on OTL points, which will be an absolute disgrace.

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4. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 08:21 AM (EDT)
In response to message #3
 
It's already happened. I think it was the Islanders who were the first team to get in the playoffs because of OTL points. It was either Buffalo or Carolina who got bumped. I remember the first year of the RT/OTL Carolina didn't lose in OT that year and missed out on points.

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Everybody Wang Chung......

Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™


 

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5. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 09:01 AM (EDT)
In response to message #4
 
I like the current standings point system. It was a complete joke last season. Poor newspaper editors couldn't even figure it out and it would change every week in the paper. The average fan doesn't want to break out a guidebook to have to figure out what it means if you won a game from the faceoff circle, etc. They understand win=2 pts, no matter when you ultimately win and if you lose in OT or shootout you get a point for the sister-kisser.

Observations from last night...

- it's a heck of a lot of fun to sit three rows behind the opponent's sin bin. it's also nice to actually see the player interactions and subtleties of play when you're used to sitting in 405 for a few years.

- the reason we don't get any shots on goal is because we have nothing clicking in the neutral zone. Bad outlet passes, most of our passes in general are at least slightly off target and most of our forwards, save for A.O., don't have the speed or skill to slip into the offensive zone one-on-one.

- last night we finally learned defensive positioning. we still gave up a ton of shots, but they were mostly on the perimeter. we actually improved in this department as the game went on, rather than collapsing in the third period. at one point, Olie gave Emminger a little love tap of appreciation when Steve kept his guy out of the crease.

- the officiating is a mess. shocker. as the game went on, the calls change. as the season goes on, the calls change. when will the nhl realize that they have the worst officiating system in professional sports? they make MLS refs look credible.

- like it or lump it, but the fans go nuts for the shootout. almost everyone on their feet and making more noise than they did all game long. perhaps the novelty will wear off. as much as it still makes me grimace a bit, it was a heck of a lot more fun than ending with a 2-2 tie and silently filing out.

- CapsNut, if you love the concourse conversationalists, try going to an area shopping mall around Christmas. I swear, I'm still amazed every year that these people have seemingly never mixed with society before and can't figure out how to walk or get the heck out of the way. fear the common mongoloid.


 

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6. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 10:07 AM (EDT)
In response to message #5
 
Actually the best was the guy sitting behind me yelling "SHOOTOUTS ARE FOR SISSIES!" after OT ended. Yet, unlike me, he was making no move for the exit.

I kinda chuckled as I was watching the staff on the concourse, Suite ushers and CSC staff in particular, who couldn't tell a slapshot from a backhand going nuts over the gimmick.

The novelty will wear off, problem is though, the gimmick isn't going away.

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Everybody Wang Chung......

Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™


 

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7. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 05:57 PM (EDT)
In response to message #6
 
I don't remember that happening with the Isles (getting in based on OTL). I got an assignment tonight.

I don't think the novelty will wear off (as you put it). Teams tie about 14 times a year on average (pure guess) Figure half of those ties for each team is at home. So that means out of 42 home dates there may be 7 shootouts (1 out of every 6 games). That number isn't so outrageous to make the gimmick fall out of disfavor. Besides, those concourse employees are going to go home and tell friends about the shootout and maybe they will go to a game because of it.

How can anyone leave before the shootout is over? You may hate it, but it still effects the standings. If it were the 82nd game of the season and the Caps needed two points to make the playoffs and the game goes to a shootout. Do you leave before it is complete?

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8. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 07:53 PM (EDT)
In response to message #7
 
Because of the RT/OTL according to the standings on ESPN.com and NHL.com;

In 1999-2000:

Pittsburgh got a higher seed over Buffalo

Buffalo made the playoffs over Carolina (Carolina would have been the 7th seed, playing us in the first round, Pittsburgh would have been 8th playing Philly, and Buffalo would have not made the playoffs)

Florida got a higher seed over Ottawa

Edmonton got a higher seed over San Jose

Edmonton made the playoffs over Anahiem (Edmonton, San Jose, and Anaheim would have all been tied with 80 points and the first tiebreaker is the number of wins, San Jose had 35 wins, Anaheim had 34, Edmonton had 32)

In 2000-2001:

Philly got home ice over Buffalo in the first round

Toronto got the seventh seed ahead of Carolina

Vancouver made the playoffs ahead of Phoenix

In 2001-2002:

Boston got the top seed in the Eastern Conference over Philadelphia

St. Louis got home ice in the first round over Chicago

Phoenix got a higher seed than Los Angeles

L.A. got a higher seed over Vancouver

In 2002-2003:

New Jersey won the Atlantic Division over New Jersey

Colorado won the Northwest Division over Vancouver

St. Louis got a higher seed over Minnesota

In 2003-2004:

Philadelphia won the Atlantic Division over New Jersey

Boston won the Northeast Division over Toronto

Ottawa got a higher seed over New Jersey

Montreal got a higher seed over the Islanders

Chicago ended up further down in the draft lottery (they should have been 30th overall)

In the last season played, there was a total of 157 tie games so just over 10 and half per team.

And yes, game 82, the Caps need two points to make the playoffs and/or win their divsion, I'm still getting up and walking out. I know I'm in the minority on this gimmick, but the only way to prove my point is to vote with my feet. It does me no good to sit in my seat or stand up and yell and scream about how bad this gimmick is.

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Everybody Wang Chung......

Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™


 

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9. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
17-Oct-05, 11:59 PM (EDT)
In response to message #8
 
Quote
In 1999-2000:

Pittsburgh got a higher seed over Buffalo

Buffalo made the playoffs over Carolina (Carolina would have been the 7th seed, playing us in the first round, Pittsburgh would have been 8th playing Philly, and Buffalo would have not made the playoffs)


The 1999-2000 year is the only one that really bothers me. Seedings are screwed up anyway with division champs ranked 1-3 even if they don't deserve it. But a team missing out on the playoffs because they were able to avoid losing in the playoffs. Imagine if it had happened to Toronto and not Carolina...

I still advocate a return to two divisions per conference and a divisional playoff format. Each conference would have one division of 8 and another division of 7. Until that day....

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10. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
18-Oct-05, 10:08 AM (EDT)
In response to message #9
 
So far you've had three teams make the playoffs by losing more in overtime (Buffalo and Edmonton in 2000 and Vancouver in 2001) and four teams winning division titles with Toronto being one of the four teams who didn't lose enough in overtime.

Every year the NHL has rewarded losing, it has had an effect on the playoffs, who makes them and who plays who in the first round.

Tell me, in 2000 would you have rather played Carolina or Pittsburgh in the first round? That ain't a tough question to answer for me. I remember the season finale at home against Buffalo that year. Hasek was jumping up and down at the end of regulation because the point had just clinched the Sabres a playoff spot, despite the fact that there was still five minutes left to play. Yet the Caps didn't need the extra point and Buffalo didn't care anymore because they were locked into the 8th seed.

It's only a matter of time until you see teams who are confident in their goaltenders pack it in for the last 10 minutes of the third period of a tied game and skate through OT to get to the gimmick.

Maybe that's why fans will be standing and applauding, they know that the "boring hockey" is over and that they can actually watch some bit of action before going home.

Here's an idea, since we all know that fans just love the shootout; why bother with three 20 minute periods and a 5 minute overtime, let's just have nothing but shootouts!

-------------------------
Everybody Wang Chung......

Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™


 

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11. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
18-Oct-05, 12:25 PM (EDT)
In response to message #10
 
If teams want a higher seed in the playoffs perhaps they should win more games in regulation. Boo-hoo. I have never bought this argument about what a travesty it is to seed a team higher based on division title over total standings points, etc. And I don't buy the argument here either. You have a points system and you know what you have to do: get more points than other teams. So do it. Problem solved.

I didn't jump for joy at the announcement of the shootout, but it's here now and for the time being the majority of fans seem to like it. It was a lot of fun on Sunday and I left happier than I would have with a tie.

If some teams start to retrench for the last 10 minutes of regulation and overtime in order to force a shootout, I guess the other team is just going to have to score a goal in 15 minutes. If they can't, that's their problem. You still have to play the game.


 

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12. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
18-Oct-05, 02:54 PM (EDT)
In response to message #11
 
Quote
If teams want a higher seed in the playoffs perhaps they should win more games in regulation. Boo-hoo. I have never bought this argument about what a travesty it is to seed a team higher based on division title over total standings points, etc. And I don't buy the argument here either. You have a points system and you know what you have to do: get more points than other teams. So do it. Problem solved.


But when Carolina finished the 1999-2000 season with more wins than Buffalo and Anahiem won more games period than Edmonton, yet still missed the playoffs, your idea "just win more games" is moot. They did, but were punished because they didn't bother to lose as much as their rivals did in overtime. Because no matter how you cut it, they won more games than the playoff teams did.

Only a backwards organization such as the NHL would it is was a good idea to reward losing.

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Everybody Wang Chung......

Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™


 

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13. "RE: Inquiring Minds want to know......."
18-Oct-05, 03:08 PM (EDT)
In response to message #10
 
LAST EDITED ON 18-Oct-05 AT 03:09 PM (EDT)
 
Seeding issues just don't get under my collar. If you are a Stanley Cup worthy team you have to beat all oncomers. The fact that we played Pittsburgh in the first round instead of Carolina doesn't change the fact that we were unable to win the Stanley Cup. Same goes for all teams. However, a team missing out on the playoffs because of OTL is disgusting and something the league should be embarrassed about.

As for shutting down to get to the shootout. Won't happen. Teams are guaranteed a point once they go to OT, so no need to shut it down in OT.

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